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Wavosaur markers in other apps or plugs (UPDATED 10/07/08)
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tommyD



Joined: 03 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:26 am    Post subject: Wavosaur markers in other apps or plugs (UPDATED 10/07/08) Reply with quote

Hey all,

Yesterday I was playing around with (vember audio's) shortcircuit2 and I noticed that it recognises any markers you insert with Wavosaur. So this got me thinking: what other audio applications/plug-ins can "see" Wavosaur markers? Does anyone know, is there a list anywhere? If not maybe we could start one (...maybe make it a sticky?).

Any thoughts?

(BTW, shortcircuit v1 CAN'T see Wavosaur markers - which is a pity: sc1 is a GREAT sampler in many respects - but it CAN see loop points inserted using Wavosaur)


Last edited by tommyD on Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rex
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,
That could be a nice idea, i'll make that sticky
Normally, loops & markers should be recognized unless the other app is using a proprietary/non-standard format.

VSTi recognizing loops informations:

- Highlife
- VSampler

I wanted to test with Shortcircuit but it kept crashing in every host i tried.
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tommyD



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rex wrote:
I wanted to test with Shortcircuit but it kept crashing in every host i tried.


Oh dear! shortcircuit2 has great features, but it's definitely "flaky": some hosts really don't like it. Unfortunately, that seems unlikely to change in the immediate future - development has basically stalled at version 0.5.1. Shame.

I'll try some other apps/plugs with Wavosaur loops and report back...
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tommyD



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(...)

OK.

I added loop points and markers to .wav files using Wavosaur v1.0.2.0. I tried putting the loop start and loop end points in various different places (i.e. not necessarily at the start and end of the file), and I used different loop directions [Tools > Loop > Properties: Loop forward (normal), Alternating loop (forward/backward), Loop backward]. I then opened the .wavs in various apps and plugs.

This is what I found:

softsamplers

shortcircuit v1.1.2

shortcircuit does recognise loop points created with Wavosaur…but it doesn’t recognise loop direction: it loads all loops as “forward loop”, regardless of whether you save them as “Loop forward (normal)”, “Alternating loop (forward/backward)” or “Loop backward”. It doesn’t recognise Wavosaur markers.

shortcircuit2 v0.5.1

sc2 recognises loop points and markers, though - bizarrely - not both at once(!). If a .wav file has loop points but no markers the loop points show up OK; if a .wav file has markers but no loop points the markers show up OK (as “H” points). But if a .wav file has both loop points and markers only the markers show up. sc2 can’t recognise loop direction.

discoDSP HighLife R2

Recognises loop points but not loop direction (all looped samples load as Loop “FWD” in the PROPERTIES section of HighLife’s main window). It doesn’t recognise markers, as far as I can tell, but I don't use HighLife much so I could be wrong.

Reason v2.5 NN-XT

Recognises Wavosaur loop points (NN-XT “LOOP START” and “LOOP END” are correct) and some loop directions:

* forward loops load automatically as “FW-LOOP”
* forward & backward loops load automatically as “FW-BW”

…but backwards loops just load as “FW”

other audio editors:

Audacity (v1.3beta) doesn’t recognise Wavosaur loop points, directions or markers.

hosts:

Reaper doesn’t recognise Wavosaur loop points, directions or markers. (This isn't a critcism of either Reaper or Wavosaur, BTW: I'd be very suprised if it did). [SEE BELOW ->]

(...)

This turned out to be an interesting and useful experiment and maybe this information will be helpful for other people, too. It's not exactly an exhaustive list, but that's as far as I can go - feel free to add more apps/plugs!

EDIT: See below. td.


Last edited by tommyD on Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:24 am; edited 2 times in total
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monkeybumper



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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bump Shocked
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Wavosaur Main Developer
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Joined: 30 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good analysis/tests.

I fact the marker/loop support implemented in Wavosaur, are standard, coming from wav file format. It's not an original chunk, but just a standard chunk.
We test maker/loop inside SF without problem. Rex could you confirm me that marker loop support are working correctly in the audio editing standard soft?
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tommyD



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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wavosaur Main Developer wrote:
We test maker/loop inside SF without problem


Forgive my ignorance; is "SF" Sound Forge?
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Wavosaur Main Developer
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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes SF = SoundForge
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Rex
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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Soundforge also recognize the standard loop & marker chunks.
I'll make also some test with commercial app if i find demo
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tommyD



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UPDATE...

For any other samplists round here who use the sfz format:

rgc:audio's sfz player recognises Wavosaur loop points, so you don't need to use sfz's "loop_start" and "loop_end" opcodes.

Which is nice Cool
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the info.

It's not possible for us to have all the commercial softwares. We use standards to develop Wavosaur and in general we don't have problem if commercial softwares respect standards.
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tommyD



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wavosaur Main Developer wrote:
Thank you for the info

You're welcome, I hope it's useful for someone.

Wavosaur Main Developer wrote:
It's not possible for us to have all the commercial softwares


Fair enough - there are lots out there and some of them are very expensive!

sfz player is free, however. It's available here: http://web.archive.org/web/20060616173559/www.rgcaudio.com/sfz.htm

Off-topic:

I highly recommend the sfz format. It's an extremely powerful and flexible non-monolithic sampling format that can use compressed (ogg), as well as uncompressed audio files. Sfz files themselves are text files - consisting of a series of "opcodes" (instructions on how and when to play back the audio files) - and can be edited in any text editor or word processor.

Check it out:
http://www.cakewalk.com/DevXchange/sfz.asp
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Wavosaur Main Developer
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interresting tommyD.

For me it's very new, because I never study sfz file format. It gives me some ideas... But not for the moment, we have lot's of work with existing source.
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tommyD



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UPDATE:

The new version of Reaper (v2.4, released yesterday) recognises Wavosaur loop points and markers: loop points show up as dotted green lines [bit tricky to see, actually] and markers show up as dotted red lines (…in the default theme, anway; I don’t know about any other theme).

If you R click on the item and select “Item processing > Import media cues from selected items as project markers” Reaper will convert any Wavosaur markers into Reaper project markers, and convert any looped sections into (numbered) Reaper regions.

N.B. Reaper alters the numbering when converting to Reaper markers: the first marker is labeled “1” rather than “M0”.

td
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Rex
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's good news!
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